Indie Watch: The "Fight School High School" Interview

Welcome to the first installment of the Fifth World's "Indie Watch"!

I often hear old Marvel/DC comic book fans like myself complaining that comics just aren't as good as they used to be. Truthfully, some are and some aren't, but to my mind this complaint ignores the truly inspiring amount of small press and indie comics being published today. Some are as good or better than anything the majors are publishing today, both in terms of quality of work and slick packaging. Others may be a little rough around the edges, but if you give them a chance you'll find yourself enjoying work that you would have dismissed the day before.

But it can be daunting trying to find indie works that hit your personal sweet spot when there is so much material out there. Indie Watch is here to help. I'm making it my personal mission to shine a spotlight on quality indie works that come to my attention. Speaking of which, I'm just one easily-distracted guy, so if you have a favorite indie work you'd like to see Indie Watch help promote, drop me a line at chris.fifthworld@gmail.com. 

Today I'm pleased to present a short interview with the creators of "Fight School High School", who have a Kickstarter campaign underway to publish the first chapter of their work (a Chapter 0 proof of concept is available for certain pledge levels too). 

Needs no caption. But I added one anyway. It's what I do.

Artist Isaiah Broussard operates Brass Comics and has a Patreon page you should check out, and writer Matt Gordon has a Patreon page you should check out as well.

We conducted this interview last Friday night via Skype text chat (making it easier for me to format and post this since transcribing from an audio recording would have taken me forever). I really appreciate Matt and Isaiah hanging in there with me and being such good sports.

Chris Maka:   

I want to begin by thanking Matt Gordon and Isaiah Broussard for being the subjects of the first Fifth World interview for our "Indie Watch" segment! Welcome, guys!

Isaiah Broussard:

Thanks for having us!

Isaiah Broussard. He's cool.

Matt Gordon:

Glad to be here.

Matt Gordon and his impressive beard.

Chris:   

Matt is the writer and letterer for "Fight School High School", and Isaiah is the penciler and inker, and color artist for things like covers.

They have a Kickstarter campaign to publish the first chapter. There are, I believe, 15 days left in the campaign, but you guys have already made your goal! Congrats!!

Isaiah:

Thanks!

Matt:   

Yeah, we ended up hitting our goal before the first 48 hours. It was absolutely astounding.

I was confident we would get there, but thought we'd have to push for it up to the last few weeks.

Isaiah:

The support's been amazing so far.

Chris:    

Nice! That's gotta be a huge relief as well as immensely gratifying, I imagine.

Matt:    

I was oscillating between intense pride and horrific imposter syndrome for a while there, for sure.

But now, yeah. I'd say relief is on the menu.

Chris:   

Ha! Horrific Imposter Syndrome is where I live – and also the  name of my Milli Vanilli cover band.

Isaiah:

I'm both relieved and feeling the pressure to make sure their faith in us is dutifully rewarded through our work.

Matt:

That's very true. I always try to give my projects 100%, but when I go back to letter these pages, the names of all those amazing people who pledged will definitely be floating through my mind as I work.

Chris:    

Having made your funding goal, I know you guys have stretch goals in place to sweeten the deal, and folks can check them out on the KS page, but first I'd like to get our readers familiar with Fight School High School itself.

I get a sort of "Harry Potter meets Ranma (for the training and grudge fights, not the gender-bending) meets My Hero Academia" vibe. How close am I?  :-)

Matt:    

Not too far off I think. Though Isaiah might take umbrage with the BNHA comparison. I think FSHS started off as a conversation we had about our favorite clichés and tropes in anime and manga, and our desire to make a story that played off those.

Isaiah:

I like to think Rival Schools/Project Justice.

But the comparisons are apt. It's about a school where the curriculum is combat. (That's my new pitch, Matt.)

Matt:    

Haha, that's good! Much easier to say across a convention table.

Chris:    

I can totally see the Project Justice now that you mention it.

Matt:    

At its core FSHS is a story about doing things you want to do, versus doing things you need to do. And the grey area between those points.

Isaiah:

Grey area between those points is of course "punches".

Chris:   

lol

Matt:    

Absolutely. Hiro Yuusha, our protagonist, was born with immense potential. But all he wants to do is live a quiet life outside of the limelight. Where does his want meet up with the realities of his new situation?

This first chapter is mostly about culture shock and the terror of a new start, though. Our take on the whole 'new kid on the scene' trope.

Hiro's strange new school.

Chris:   

Right.

Matt:    

I just always thought it would be fun to write not only a reluctant hero, but a reluctant character. Hiro is facing the same first day at school every Shonen protagonist in a battle manga has ever had, but the difference is he emphatically doesn't want to be there.

If he had his way, he'd NOPE right back off the campus. But of course, there's no fun in that!

Chris:    

It's interesting to hear you say that, because when I was in high school, I kinda bounced between periods where I loved going to school and periods where I hated it but never questioned the fact that I had to do it.

But I have a teenage daughter now who is very bright but doesn't like school as an institution and questions her need to even be there, which was startling to me.

Isaiah:

That is indeed scary. But since she's bright I'm sure she'll power through just like our hero will. Good thing she just has to use her brains. She'll have a much easier time than Hiro.

Matt:    

That's the biggest fear every parent/teacher/adult has. That the teens will become self-aware.

Isaiah:

Oh no. The Teenage Revolution is nigh!

Matt:    

And we are arming them with incredible fighting techniques. What terror we've wrought.

Chris:    

You mentioned earlier that this started from a conversation the two of you were having. So you guys already knew each other before starting this project, obviously. Where/how did you guys meet?

Isaiah:

We met through a mutual friend who has also collaborated with Matt on their title, "Musings", Jessi Jordan.

Matt:    

Exactly. I think it was at a Staple! (the comic convention here in Austin) where we really had our first conversation. The drink and draw, right?

Chris:

Was the conversation that led to FSHS just a friendly conversation or were you specifically talking about working together on something?

Isaiah:

Oh dear. I can't be expected to remember a conversation that happen at the drink and draw! :D

Matt:

Same. I think we initially bonded over a shared love of fighting games, which led to talk of what manga we read, which led to talk of how silly some of the stuff we loved about them were.

And eventually we piled up enough that it made sense to make a story with them as part of the mix.

Chris:

How has the development process for this project gone? Sounds like it got to a point where it got more serious. Did you start saying to each other, "Okay, here's what we have to figure out next about our cast, here's what our second main story arc needs to be...", that kind of stuff, or has it been more informal?

Matt:

There's a google doc. I'll admit to that.

But yeah, once we had decided that we were both cool dudes and wanted to make something together, things got a little more structured. We laid out character concepts, decided the scope of the first chapter, volume, etc. Threw ideas back and forth.

Isaiah:

I remember it being pretty relaxed. I was busy on other projects, and Matt was still finishing up college. He'd fill up that doc with random bits of inspiration photos and some character bios; after which I would toss out a few designs based on them.

Matt:

Yeah. There was a great back and forth I feel. My bios would inspire designs which would further tweak the bios.

Isaiah:

That back and forth process was pretty fun, and I felt that kind of collaboration led to some character designs I'm proud of. It was very different from working on "Transyltown" where I do everything myself, or on Help Wanted! where David either already had characters designed or had clear visions for them. I really feel like FSHS is the embodiment of both Matt and my imaginations.

Matt:

Which, in my opinion, is the best way to make a comic book.

Chris:    

That sounds like the kind of collaboration that everyone who grows up dreaming about working with others to create comics dreams of.

Has there ever been a moment where you discovered that you guys had very different ideas about some aspect of character or plot? And if so, how did you handle it?

Matt:

Hmmm, I'm trying to think of something... Maybe Tengu? I feel like we went back and forth on him a bit.

Tengu concept drawings by Isaiah.

Isaiah:

Only in the beginning when I was getting Matt's stream of consciousness ideas, and wasn't quite certain what his vision was.

Tengu, a character that will be appearing briefly in the first issue and I believe plays a bigger role in the next, was quite the challenge and went through the most iterations. But I think that's because I was personally unsatisfied with what I was drafting.

Chris:    

Did you get to a point with the character where you were satisfied finally? How did you work to get to that point if you did?

Matt:    

Yeah. It was a lot of low-stakes back and forth. I'd shoot a message during my bus ride to campus about design ideas, then Isaiah would sketch something during his breaks at work. We kept at that for a while until we found something super awesome.

Isaiah:

Yeah, I kept grinding at it. The more ideas Matt contributed, the closer I got to something that we liked more.

Matt:    

We started with a higher concept idea, in Tengu's case "b-boy assassin", and then would bring it into the realm of realism. Things like "How would he fight?", "What outfit pieces look good but wouldn't work well in a fight?"

We're trying to thread a needle with FSHS, where we explore both the fantasy of a world that has a walking tv screen-esque robotic fighter, and the realistic awesomeness of real-world martial styles.

And some of our characters lean more one way or the other, and then some like Tengu sit more in the middle. Those are the characters that take the most work to nail, I think.

Chris:

I can see where that would be the most challenging.

Matt:

Yeah, it's a situation where we really want to have our cakes and eat them too.

Cake *is* delicious.

Chris:    

How much martial arts – both fictional (movies, comics/manga) and real-life – have you guys studied for this? How do you approach that research?

Matt:   

I do a lot of research for the core characters that use more realistic styles, like Molly and Nigel, and will continue to do so for other planned characters down the line. But the more fantastical fighters, like Rocco or the Space Jaunt twins, require basically the same amount of work, but on an empty word doc instead of Wikipedia.

Molly, for example, uses bataireacht, or Irish stick fighting. I've been interested in the style for over a decade now. So there's a lot about the forms – technique names, the correct way to move and strike – that will make their way into the book.

Molly character design artwork by Isaiah.

Chris:

As a martial arts enthusiast, I love stuff like that.

Matt:    

But then Steven and Karen, twin time-travelers from a possible science-fiction future, are completely without real-world basis. So I basically watch a lot of Star Trek and think of jokes I can write based on how Captain Kirk fights.

Chris:

I hope the Kirk Double-Fist Strike puts in an appropriately cringe-worthy appearance. :-)

Isaiah:

Matt's constantly researching and sharing new videos of martial arts he's currently researching. Our first issue features a made up, silly style, but Matt's also doing a ton of research for even our crazier styles. The challenge for me is to figure out how to show this kind of stuff of in a way that's fantastic, so even in chapter 1 with Rocco’s exercised-based Gym Rat style, I'm constantly thinking, "How does he move?"

Matt:    

Yeah. There's a really fun challenge with Rocco, the stereotypical bully and antagonist of Chapter 1. He's a meathead, but the kind of weight lifting exercises you do in the gym don't lend themselves super well to real world fighting.

So balancing joke techniques with what would be legitimately useful or scary in a fight is a big part of scripting for us.

Chris:

I bet.

Isaiah, how challenging do you find it to differentiate styles visually in panel-by-panel combat?

Isaiah:

Between issue 0 and 1 we've only covered Rocco and Hiro's style, and since Hiro's not much of a fighter it's been pretty easy so far! I'm looking forward to portraying Tengu's style in the next issue, and I have already planned out how to convey his kinetic motion and even pitched to Matt we change his weapon to better suit his dancing style.

I can't wait until some the fighters with real styles take the center stage. I look at a lot of reference just to convey Molly in our key art for the title, so I know I'll be doing a lot of my own research once she gets her first fight scene.

pick

Hiro meets Molly.

Chris:    

Are there any particular artists or titles you've studied specifically for fight scene storytelling/choreography techniques?

Isaiah:

Masashi Kishimoto and Jack Kirby. Kishimoto's a storytelling genius who frames martial arts with cinematic creativity. Looking at Kirby was particularly helpful for Rocco who has the superhuman build, and Kirby really know how to move and twist those stocky bodies.

Matt:

Manga like "Blade of the Immortal" and gifs of "One-punch Man" episodes definitely make their way into my inspiration folder.

Chris:

I don’t want to ask too many specific questions about the story and cast of FSHS because I don’t want to give it away – folks need to jump on this Kickstarter bandwagon and then they can find out for themselves 😊 – but what else do you want to tell our readers about the content of FSHS that we haven’t already discussed?

Matt:

It wasn't a particularly conscious decision on our parts, but I think FSHS mirrors games like Street Fighter and Soulcalibur when it comes to multicultural casts. We've got students from across the globe, and through both their fighting styles and character, we wanna pay homage to that diversity.

Chris:

I think that's a great decision, because that's certainly part of the appeal of those franchises.

Isaiah:

FSHS is about discovering your potential. I hope it encourages readers to aspire to reach their own personal goals for greatness.

Matt:    

Absolutely. Fights come in all shapes and sizes – ours happen to be more literal, but that's because it's an action story. And in any fight, there's a point where you decide to give up or dig deep. If FSHS helps just one reader find that strength to go one more round, we'll have achieved something pretty damn worthwhile.

Chris:

That’s a great sentiment.

Okay, so making the comic is only half the battle.

The comic book/sequential-visual-storytelling public has never been more receptive to new and different creators and ideas, but there’s SO MUCH material out there!

Obviously everyone in the indie space talks a lot about the fear and challenge of finding an audience. How do you guys feel about that and how have you approached it?

Matt:    

I'm definitely in the lower percentile when it comes to marketing savvy. Isaiah likely has better ideas on how to find an audience than me. I mostly try to make something good, and then tell friends about it in the hope that they tell their friends and it ripples out from there.

There are definitely things indie creators can try – Facebook ads, Twitter marketing – that are cheap to implement. I can't speak to their outcomes because I've never had the courage or pocket money to use them, but other creators around our level have had really positive experiences going down that route.

Isaiah:

Thanks to the internet and abundance of comic conventions the ability to find an audience is easier now than it's ever been. Every time I feel like I'm not doing that part well I've been shocked by the reach I receive. I still think I'm clueless on marketing and networking, but simply putting yourself out there in the right places with confidence can find you an audience.

Matt:    

This might be some of that imposter syndrome talking but... I mean we must be doing something right, with the Kickstarter getting funded like it did!

Chris:

Hey, you’re clearly doing something right. Winning!

Isaiah:

It's certainly has to be thanks to your efforts Matt. Tracking my numbers, the posts I've made for FSHS on my Facebook, and the reception's been very low, but that political cartoon I made that went viral on my Facebook seriously changed the dynamics of the work people expect to see on my social media :/

Matt:    

Isaiah brings the Kickstarter experience though – this is my first, but he's got several under his belt. Plus his multiple active webcomics definitely give him a bigger comics footprint than me right now.

Chris:    

I'd like to talk now about craft.

Matt, do you have an organized approach or philosophy of technique for writing?

Matt:    

I think writing differs greatly depending on the format and circumstances. How I approach a comic script is radically different than how I draft a column, which is different to how I construct an essay. And there's further partitioning within a given format.

Like some comic collaborations work best if I write out an entire script, word-for-word and panel-for-panel. Then some work out best when it's just a paragraph of prose for the page, and waiting for the artist to take that and reproduce it visually.

The oft-called “Marvel Style”.

Chris:   

Do you have a preferred way that you would like to work? I know you tailor your work to the artist, but just curious if you have a preference for full script or "Marvel style".

Matt:    

When it comes to comics, I think I prefer to start at the macro and move towards the micro. I'll plot the idea of what happens in an issue, give a page count to each event, then block out the events across panels, then work in dialog as needed. And all of it is built loose enough to flex and morph as the artist works.

Chris:

Is there a particular style or "voice" that you're going for broadly across multiple projects? FSHS specifically?

Matt:    

I think I'm still pretty young at this, but my voice tends to be pretty dry when it comes to dialog, and zoomed out when it comes to story scope. I like world building too much, I think, and my characters tend to be overly sassy. But when it comes to writing FSHS, my biggest goal is to carry across a sense of enthusiasm.

Everything should feel like it ends with an exclamation point in FSHS, because genuine enthusiasm is the best way to tackle a challenge, and Shonen manga are all about overcoming challenges, trials, and fights.

Chris:   

Isaiah, can you tell us about your workflow as someone penciling and then inking their own work. What is your approach, what are the things you focus on?

Isaiah:

My key concern is always storytelling. I give a lot of thought to how I frame shots. "What angle best frames the emotion meaning of this scene? How can I use the composition of the page and size and shape of the panel to sell this scene?" Those are the most important questions I ask myself. Honestly the drawing is the easy part. Inking my own work means That I don't have to be as tight with my pencils, and I think of the inks as part of the drawing process of a page rather than a separate part. I do start my inking later after doing a few pencils though. That way I can look at the art with a new set of eyes to see if there's anything I want to change.

Matt's writing style afforded some room for some creative freedom. There was a scene that I decided I'd surprise him with how I would interpret the sequence as a two page spread.

Matt:

And oh man, that spread DELIVERS. I was blown away when he sent me those pages.

Chris:

Nice!

In terms of problem solving, do either of you ever reach back to a favorite influence or inspiration to help overcome a challenge? "How would Grant Morrison setup this payoff?" "How would Hiroaki Samura convey the emotion of this moment visually?" that kind of thing.

Isaiah:

Oh, I most certainly crack open Kishimoto, Kirby, Jim Lee, and Nobuhiro Watsuki books when something stumps me.

Matt:    

I probably should, haha. I'm normally just charging forward with my eyes closed when it comes to scripting. Though I will try to imbibe and assimilate other writers’ works right before I sit down to script. Bendis, Gaiman, and Miller more than anyone.

Chris:

Isaiah, best piece of advice you could give to someone just starting out in visual storytelling?

Isaiah:

Watch movies. Every time camera changes angles make note of what they are showing and why. Study how they frame the positive and negative elements. Study each shot's use of each element of art. A lot of the visual language of comics is the same as movies.

Chris:

I think that's great advice.

Any particular movies offhand you've found extremely educational for you in that sense?

Isaiah:

The first "Thor" is a visual spectacle. Every shot could be a painting. The Asgard scenes are stunning but the same amount of control of frame and composition was put into the scenes on Earth as the scenes they created with CG. "Mad Max Fury Road" is equally fantastic with some of the most amazing action cinematic choreography and composition I've ever seen. Each shot leads the eye seamlessly to the next. A lot is conveyed without words, and the camera helps sell that. The Star Wars prequels are excellent examples of what not to do. They are full of static, uninteresting compositions that add nothing.

Matt:    

For FSHS specifically, watching Jackie Chan movies is something I've found useful. His fight-with-anything style is a similar mix of humor and action we're trying to capture.

Tarsem Singh's "The Fall" is another film that takes visuals and composition to the next level. It should be seen by everyone who loves story.

Chris:

Matt, best piece of advice you could give to someone just starting out to write comics/manga?

Matt:

1. Read EVERYTHING.

2. Buy Words For Pictures by Bendis.

3. Listen to and incorporate your artist's ideas whenever possible

4. Subscribe to my Patreon because I sometimes put useful writing tips up there when I remember it exists.

Chris:

Closing statements time! Anything that either of you wants to say that I shoulda asked about but didn't? :-D

Isaiah:

I just wanna express again how humbled I am by the support we've already received. I hope the story we're crafting meets or exceeds their expectations.

Matt:

Sort of calling back to what Isaiah and I said earlier about potential, challenges, and friendships... The world has a lot of shit that's fucked right now. FSHS is going to be uncompromising in its enthusiasm, optimism, and joy. So if you think you'd like more of those things in your life or the world in general, think about pledging.

Chris:

I think that's a great note to end on. Thanks, guys, for doing this!

Thanks, everyone, for reading this interview. Be sure to check out, and hopefully back, their Kickstarter campaign. Also, if you have any questions for Matt or Isaiah, be sure to leave them in the comments below. 

Chris Maka is a veteran video game and mobile app developer who also happens to be an illustrator himself (he has an online portfolio and additional artwork up on his DeviantArt page). He also tweets and instagrams occasionally. Chris is one of the Fifth World's founders and editors, and if you want to communicate at him directly, you can email him at chris.fifthworld@gmail.com.