5W Panel: The Ultimate Legion Roster (Part 2 of 2)

The Legion Draft Continues!

Periodically, we host a virtual panel session on a topic of note, capturing The Fifth World staff having a dialogue about a given subject.  This week's topic: with whom would we populate a new Legion of Super-Heroes?  This topic is just too big for a single panel post, so we've split it into two.  Today, we pick up where we left off in Part 1 and talk about which other characters to let onto our team.  

JL Franke

I forgot to add this in before.  Superboy or no?

Kal-El/Clark Kent, aka Superboy, Richard Kent Shakespeare, aka Impulse/Superman, and Kon-El/Connor Kent, aka Superboy

Dvandom

No.  Ties too strongly to the present.

Sean Fields

No.

Marc Singer

That is hilarious. You forgot Superboy!

I actually think the Legion needs some kind of tie to the modern day and the Superman mythos.

JL Franke

On reflection, it's also why I forgot Kent Shakespeare.  I was going to put them together. 😏

Dvandom

Right, just not a commuter.

Marc Singer

But unless Superboy is actually a young Clark Kent, I say go with Supergirl instead.

JL Franke

What about Supergirl?

Sean Fields

No Kryptonians for me. Just the S as inspiration.

Chris Maka

I agree with Sean.

Marc Singer

For me, the Legion started as a bunch of super-friends for the super-boy, kind of equivalent to Krypto or all the other wondrous artifacts of his youth. It's part of their DNA.

Dvandom

Have a permanent resident of the 31C who is a survivor of the 21C.  Or a clone, a mystic echo, a "Titans: Rock Paper Scissors" style engram, etc.  Decoupled so that changes to the present day one don't mess with the Legion.

Marc Singer

No, poor replacements are worse than no presence at all. This was why Thunder never took, Andromeda, etc.

(I loved Laurel Gand when she first appeared, but with a Supergirl back in continuity that whole character is kind of pointless.) Go with the real thing or just avoid them entirely.

Sean Fields

I think you can still have a group that starts because of Superman but the Superboy pal stuff kills me. Leave the people of the past in the past.

Dvandom

The key problem with the Real Thing is that we get the Pocket Universe conundrum all over as soon as someone in the Superman Office decides to mess with things for an event.

Marc Singer

Then why doesn't that bring down the Justice League?

Dvandom

Why would it?

Marc Singer

My point exactly.

Dvandom

But "Superboy is in the Legion" meets "Superman was never Superboy" does cause problems.

Marc Singer

If the problem is that having a younger version of the character creates potential timeline problems, just use Supergirl instead. Problem solved.

Chris Maka

I'd still be afraid of future interference from the Super office

Marc Singer

And if DC is foolish enough to erase Supergirl from the continuity again (esp. now that she has a hit TV show) well... then there was no hope for the Legion anyway.

JL Franke

Using Supergirl also gives DC something to do with her whenever her book gets canceled (like it is now).

Marc Singer

When I think about these things I can't worry too much about the internal politics of what the offices will do... if they can't get their act together then the comics will suck regardless.

But thinking about what makes the Legion tick for me, a connection to the Superman family and legacy is definitely a part of that.

He doesn't have to be a constant presence, and they may not even have any Kryptonian members, but the tradition ought to always be there.

Sean Fields

Then do it like the show- send Mon El into the future and he starts the Legion because he was inspired by Superman, Supergirl and other heroes of the past while he was here.

Dvandom

They could find the Fortress of Solitude and have Superman's interactive diary as an inspiration?  😏

JL Franke

What about Jon Kent?  Or are we worried about him being written out of continuity as well?

Marc Singer

All of these suggestions are much more boring to me than actually having Superboy or Supergirl hang out with the Legion!

Sean Fields

LOL!

I just don’t like Superboy is probably what it is.

Marc Singer

(or Jon Kent, that's a great idea - but it raises issues of his age relative to the Legionnaires we like to read about. He's closer to Graym and Garridan, right?)

JL Franke

True, but it doesn't have to happen in the present.  It could be set a few years down the road.

Marc Singer

(Though LEGION: THE NEXT GENERATION, STARRING SUPERBOY AND VALIDUS does have a certain... no. No, never mind.)

JL Franke

As long as they weren't inspired by Damian Wayne.

Sean Fields

Damian Wayne Science Police vs Superboy Legion?

Marc Singer

Kent, I loved. He had the most classic Legion moment of any character in 5YL, and it was his first scene!

Sadly, it was all downhill from there.

Chris Maka

Agreed, Marc

Dvandom

A lot of Kent's schtick depended on "is he Superman or Superman's descendant?" toying around with readers.

JL Franke

Well, we've gone through everyone that's had multiple versions.  The next few will be sets of characters and vote on any you'd like to see brought into a new Legion book.

First, characters introduced in the original version:

Blok, Mysa Nal, aka White Witch, and Troy Stewart, aka Tyroc

Brek Bannin, aka Polar Boy, Pol Krinn, aka Magnetic Kid, Ganglios, aka Tellus, and The Artist, aka Quislet

Sean Fields

TYROC!

JL Franke

I know you all can't wait to shout out Quislet. 😏

Dvandom

Poop a doop.

JL Franke

I'm guessing 5YL Tyroc?

Marc Singer

Quislet and Tellus are great examples of why writers shouldn't always give the fans what they say they want.

JL Franke

Did the fans want them?

Marc Singer

5YL Tyroc could've been great if he'd ever been allowed to do anything - but that was a problem with a lot of 5YL.

Chris Maka

There's a later Tyroc I really liked, I think the Threeboot Tyroc?

JL Franke

I have to admit I have a soft spot in my heart for both Blok and Polar Boy.

Sean Fields

Tyroc was another black adult- he became president at some point.

JL Franke

I don't think there was a threeboot Tyroc.  You may be thinking retroboot.

Chris Maka

v3 Polar Boy and Blok before he became all mutated

Marc Singer

Some fans were vocal about wanting more nonhumanoid members to make the Legion more SF. Which is misguided in that a) the Legion are superheroes in an SF setting, not SF per se, and b) there was nothing to Quislet and Tellus other than not being humanoid. More gimmicks as characterization.

JL Franke

Marc: agreed.

Dvandom

I kinda like Five Year Gap Polar Boy, although he didn't get any real screen time.

Marc Singer

Blok, White Witch, and Polar Boy, definitely.

Dvandom

The idea that he was the last torchbearer.

Chris Maka

I agree with Marc re: Quislet and Tellus

Marc Singer

(Either original or retroboot Polar Boy, the fanboy who makes good and not the comic relief sidekick.)

JL Franke

Marc, what's the draw of White Witch for you?  I was going to vote for her, but I realized it was mostly for Blok to crush on her.

Marc Singer

I just like her in Great Darkness, I guess. Magic characters are tough to write, though, esp. in team books.

I admit, I liked her as the head of Sorcerors World in the Johns retroboot, with Blok as her guard/companion.

Probably a better place to stick her without unbalancing the team.

Chris Maka

I like her personality and the Blok crush, but I don't like magic characters in group books generally because they become deus ex magica too often.

Marc Singer

Yup.

JL Franke

In the interests of moving forward, let's take a look at 5YL intros.  (Unless anyone wants to shout out for Magnetic Kid.)

Marc Singer

I don't know if this will be popular or unpopular, but Magnetic Kid: terrible idea all around.

Chris Maka

Agreed.

Marc Singer

You already had one Cosmic Boy, and he didn't have any personality either!

JL Franke

I seem to recall an article on Howling Curmudgeons where we collectively declared Magnetic Kid the worst of the original Legion.

Brita An'nan, aka Kono, Celeste McCauley, aka Celeste Rockfish/Neon, and Devlin O'Ryan, aka Reflex

Firefist, Veilmist, Blood Claw, Fliderweb, Sussa Paka, aka Spider Girl, and Yera Allon, aka Chameleon Girl

JL Franke

(Btw, I added Yera here, but I think technically she's retroboot.)

Sean Fields

I forgot all these people.

Marc Singer

I love Spider Girl as Jo's crush/love interest (though I would cast her as an outsider in a Catwoman-type role), and I loved Yera joining the team in the retroboot.

Chris Maka

Yeah, I liked Yera in retroboot

Marc Singer

I thought I liked Kono at the time, but I was wrong. Forced humor is worse than no humor at all. (See also: Quislet.)

JL Franke

Sean, you're not alone.  I think I've blocked most of later 5YL out of my mind.

Marc Singer

The rest of these guys... I mean, 5YL got me hooked on the Legion, but this is a pretty poor showing.

Chris Maka

I don't care for or about the others, really

JL Franke

Ok, reboot...

James Cullen, aka Kid Quantum, Dyrk Magz, aka Magno, Jazmin Cullen, aka Kid Quantum, and IZOR, aka Gear

Candi Pyponte-Le Parc III, aka Monstress, Zoe Saugin, aka Kinetix, and CeCe Beck, aka Thunder/Captain Marvel

Jenni Ognats, aka XS, and Ti'julk Mr'asz, aka Gates

Chris Maka

Of these, I liked Kinetix, XS, and Gates in spite of myself

Marc Singer

Okay, the reboot characters: XS was great. Gates, I thought was great but I was wrong. (Gimmicks on top of gimmicks.)

Sean Fields

I’m a fan of Kid Quantum/Jazmin. Gates and Kinetix were... interesting. I’m a XS fanatic.

Marc Singer

Kinetix came out of the gate strong but faded down the lane.

Chris Maka

Agreed on that about Kinetix

JL Franke

I have to confess that I remember liking Kinetix and also not remembering what her powers were whatsoever.

Marc Singer

1st Kid Quantum, awful. Jazmin, great (but the above point about how the Legion handles its black members has kind of cast a pall over her now).

Sean Fields

Yup

JL Franke

If it helps, neither her brother nor XS were ever the adults in the room.

Marc Singer

Magno, barely there. Gear, same. Thunder, okay idea in theory (one of umpteen Supergirl replacements), dull as dishwater in practice.

Dvandom

I liked the idea of Kinetix as "even in the future, running around in archeological digs is a valid origin" but that was about it.

Marc Singer

Monstress, THE WORST. Like, worse than Magnetic Kid worst.

Sean Fields

Jazmin made Cosmic Boy okay for me.

Chris Maka

Monstress could have been interesting, but was terrible

Sean Fields

Worse than Catspaw?

Marc Singer

Because at least Magnetic Kid didn't sound like your grandma. Even no personality is better than that personality.

JL Franke

I so agree with you Marc.  And she was another teenage girl who talked like a grandma.  The threeboot kids would tell her to suck it.

Marc Singer

And for once, they would be right

Chris Maka

heh

JL Franke

Speaking of Catspaw, I realized I skipped over SW6...

Marc Singer

And we thank you for it.

Chris Maka

Good :smile:

Sean Fields

Don’t worry about it, Jerry

Marc Singer

Nope, nope, surprisingly okay!

JL Franke

Oh, I had it ready.  I just forgot to post it in order. 😏

April Dumaka, aka Catspaw, Xao Jin, aka Dragonmage, and Danielle Foccart, aka Computo

Sean Fields

Is that Computo? Was that her name?

JL Franke

Yes, that is Jacques's sister.

Sean Fields

👎

JL Franke

So I'm hearing lots of nos on SW6.  Just a couple more heroes to consider (from threeboot and retroboot)...

Marc Singer

You know, considering how many classic Legionnaires never came back in the reboot (or didn't come back until Abnett & Lanning brought them back in heavily doctored form), it is amazing how many shit new members cluttered up the books.

Dvandom

Dragonmage was one of those characters whose presence almost demanded "magic is going to be a bigger deal in the setting going forwards," but that never really kicked in.

Sean Fields

And who is middle guy? A green lantern knockoff?

Dvandom

Dragonmage, Sean.

Basically a White Witch legacy.

Sean Fields

Ahh Dragonmage...

Giselle Smith, aka Gazelle, M'Rissey, and Kirt Niedrigh, aka Earth-Man/Absorbancy Boy/Zoraz

Glorith, aka Glorith II, Grava, aka Comet Queen, Marya Pai, aka Dragonwing, Hadru Jamik, aka Chemical Kid, and Harmonia Li, aka Harmonia

Sean Fields

👎

Dvandom

Like, they had a whole magic academy thing that never really went anywhere.

Sean Fields

All these guys are terrible.

Dvandom

Redeemed Racist Earth-Man was surprisingly interesting.

In that I was surprised he was interesting at all.

Chris Maka

Yeah, not a fan of any of these

Marc Singer

I liked most of the new Legion Academy kids, esp. Chemical King.

JL Franke

Shooter appeared to be having acid flashbacks when he created M'Rissey, the kid whose powers were dealing with bureuacracy.

Marc Singer

But why on Earth (ahem) would the Legion take Earth-Man in the first place? He'd just taken over the world, used Sun Boy so badly it traumatized them, and he was a racist who hated about 3/4ths of the team. That twist made no sense.

Oh, and for some reason Shady starts sleeping with him? That did not bode well for Levitz's final run on the Legion.

Chris Maka

Word.

JL Franke

Any second votes for any of the folks who've gotten a single shout out?

Believe it or not, we made it all the way through the Legion!

Marc Singer

I mean, taking the leader of a fascist dictatorship who opposed everything they stood for? It was a bit like "the Justice Society of America, now starring Adolf Hitler!" 

JL Franke

Any final thoughts on what anyone hopes to happen with the Legion if/when it's brought back at the end of DC's current set of event comics?

Marc Singer

That's a tough question. I don't think you can reboot the book again, because all the reboots have killed it.

Chris Maka

I liked the retroboot idea but its execution got off the rails with Giffen's return

Sean Fields

More Catspaw stories?

JL Franke

Yeah, I think my one wish is for Giffen to be kept away from the book if it returns.

Chris Maka

Heh.

Marc Singer

But I don't think you can just pick up from the old continuity, because which one do you pick? Literally anything you do with the team will piss off somebody.

Chris: yes, and Jerry: oh god, yes.

I will say that whatever DC does with the Legion, I hope they start with a Legion that is already fully formed and has some members who postdate the Shooter run.

Chris Maka

That would be nice.

Marc Singer

One of the classic signs of a bad reboot is when the writer (usually Mark Waid) refuses to include anybody who joined the Legion after he was 13.

JL Franke

I'd agree, Marc.  And by suggesting this exercise, I'd go even further and suggest combining the best aspects of each version of the Legion.  Why not satisfy and piss off everyone at the same time?

Marc Singer

What would you say are the best aspects of each version? I ask this as somebody who thinks the threeboot doesn't have any.

JL Franke

Well, we actually pulled out at least a couple threeboot versions as the one the majority of us like as we went through the characters.  In terms of which storyline/universe to use, I'd have to suggest something resembling OG/retroboot as it seems the most defined.

Marc Singer

I guess I meant more general features of the version, not specific cast members.

JL Franke

Oh, sure.  I agree that I would not want to spend every month in the threeboot universe.  But I think transplanting, say, the threeboot Shady into the Levitz LSH universe would work well.

Sean Fields

I like the atmosphere of the threeboot as far as the legion representing kids kinda rising out of a repressive society, although they generally did it in asshole teen ways.

Marc Singer

For example, the reboot had consistent characterizations from the start, rather than adding them piecemeal over a couple of decades the way the original Legion comics did. And while I wasn't wild about most of the new members, they created a few good characters who increased the diversity of the Legion, like XS or the Jazmin Cullen Kid Quantum.

Dvandom

Adventure, hope, a future that is bright but still contains danger.  Seeking to face evil as a positive choice, not because it's that or die.

Chris Maka

What Dave said

JL Franke

I agree.  Well said!

Ok, I think we've got more than enough material to make for a really long panel post. I'll write this up after I finish the Legion tutorial we talked about. It will help new folks understand all the terms we threw around here.

Chris Maka

Cool

Sean Fields

You're a good man for that.

Chris Maka

LLL!

Marc Singer

Writing a tutorial about Legion continuity to explain a Legion panel is the most Legion of Super-Heroes thing ever.

Chris Maka

LOL, that it is.

JL Franke

Perhaps I should try out for the Legion as Summary Lad.

Sean Fields

LOL.

Marc Singer

Well, technically the most Legion thing ever would be if Jerry pretended to turn evil and got us to vote him out of the Fifth World because his precognitive girlfriend warned him that if he didn't leave the website, one of us would die!!!

Except then it turned out it was Chris's pet wearing a Chris suit.

JL Franke

I still mist up over the scene with all of you standing around my farewell post each holding a copper rod.

Chris Maka

LOL!

Marc Singer

See you on Shanghalla, Jerry. 

Dvandom

(Oh, and minimal to no crossovers with the present day.  Leave the connection murky enough that no Big Crossover Event will screw with Legion stuff.)

Chris Maka

YES!

JL Franke

Oh, and can we all agree to not do a Legion Lost book?

Sean Fields

YES!

Chris Maka

No Legion Lost!

Marc Singer

The first one was alright, if only because it did what every good Legion book should do: kill off Monstress.

JL Franke

😆

Dvandom

We don't need a Time Trapper level thing, just...time travel is iffy under ideal conditions, and a millennium is a lot of time for things to be forgotten or written off as fiction.

Marc Singer

We have enough for two posts here. Hell, we could probably go Legion Week if we wanted to.

ooh...

JL Franke

Woo!  Legion Week!

Marc Singer

💡

I could turn that old Facebook thread we had about essential Legionnaires into a kind of adjunct to this panel.  [Note: Look for that Friday morning!]

JL Franke

Suck it Shark Week!

Sean Fields

I would write a Tyroc/Killmonger comparison piece. 🙌  [Note: that post is not forthcoming.]

Marc Singer

YEAH!

JL Franke

Let's do it!

Good night everyone!  Thanks for playing!

Sean Fields

night!

Marc Singer

LLL!

If you have a topic you'd like to see the Fifth World staff address, tweet the topic to @5thworldonline and include #FridayPanel in your tweet.